In this episode of The Generations of Wealth Show, host Derek Dombeck sits down with Laura Phillips, a 30-year mortgage industry veteran specializing in reverse mortgages. They dive deep into the myths, benefits, and potential pitfalls of reverse mortgages, breaking down how they work, who they’re for, and why they may (or may not) be a good financial tool. Whether you’re a homeowner, real estate investor, or planning for retirement, this is a must-watch conversation that could change how you view home equity forever!

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The Truth About Reverse Mortgages – What They Don’t Tell You! 

Welcome to the Generations of Wealth Show. I’m Derek Dombeck, your host. And today we’re talking about something that I don’t think ever gets talked about. I don’t really ever hear about it on investor type podcasts, but it’s reverse mortgages. And how do they actually work? Are they good? Are they bad? We’re gonna find out. Before that, I really wanna appreciate all of you that are regular followers of the show, anybody that’s just finding us, thanks for being here. And anything you can do to help us grow, we appreciate with all the likes, the shares, all of that stuff, and anything we can do for you. Don’t hesitate to reach out to thegenerationsofwealth.com and I’ll help you in any way I can. So with that said, let’s get on with the show. And here is Laura Phillips. And here we are with no further ado, Laura Phillips. Thank you, Laura, for spending some time with us at the Generations of Wealth Show. – Thank you so much for having me on. I’m really looking forward to it. – Well, I would love for you to just tell the audience a little bit about yourself, and then we’re gonna dive into a topic that is very seldom talked about, reverse mortgages.

But first, yeah, what’s your background? – Well, I have been in the mortgage business for a long time, like 30, I stopped counting. Let’s stop at 30, 30 years. So I actually started out way back- – Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You’re only 29 years old. How is it possible you’ve been in the mortgage industry for 30 years? – You know, good genes. – Okay. – Good genes. – Keep going, my smart ass will come out occasionally. – I love it, thank you, thank you. I actually moved from Texas to Colorado, and Texas had, we started Boomtown back in ’82, but we hit Colorado and there was no jobs at all. Not even one page worth of jobs. And I thought, what am I gonna do with myself? We’re newly married, where are we gonna go? So I got involved with real estate and realized that I didn’t understand how to convince somebody to buy a house, but they just need to paint the kitchen yellow. That wasn’t gonna work. But I figured out the mortgage side, the lending side, the numbers, and they just clicked with me. So I went down that path of real estate and just dove into mortgages, anything about mortgages. I have worked at almost every aspect of doing mortgages. I’ve been a processor, a closer, a level one underwriter, which kind of allowed me to actually approve the file, after good credit and things of that sort. Back end was selling the loans to the secondary market. And then I got involved with reverse mortgages about six years ago, and I love ’em. I don’t do anything else unless my daughter comes and says, “Please help my friend buy a house.” – Yeah. – I’m really a reverse mortgage lady. – Well, we’ll have to start at the beginning because many people don’t even know how a reverse mortgage works. And so I think there’s a lot of misinformation out there that I would love to have you get rid of because there is definitely a place for them. So maybe start at the baby steps. 

Understanding Reverse Mortgages

What is a reverse mortgage? How does it work? And we’ll keep going from there. – Absolutely. So reverse mortgage is designed, came back out, actually was designed in the early Reagan years. And the very first reverse mortgage was for a woman whose husband died and the local bank called Nutter, I don’t remember the initials before it, anyway, decided that they wanted to help her out. She had young kids. They actually figured out how to do a reverse mortgage on that home. That allowed her to tap into the equity that she had in the home, be able to live in it without paying any mortgage payments and raise her children while they were young. And she could get, she could work on raising those children. From there, President Reagan set into play putting reverse mortgages into our FHA programs and HUD programs. And they’ve been out ever since then. So I say that the new reverse mortgage that we’re talking about now is not your grandmother’s reverse. So those mortgages in the early days didn’t do, they didn’t think a lot about the ramifications of some of their rules. You have to be 62 years old to be able to get a reverse mortgage. So that’s not really a problem. That’s still out there. There are some exceptions to that with portfolio loans where you can actually get a reverse mortgage if you’re 50. What else can I tell you about them? Let’s talk about some of the myths because I think if we eliminate the myths, then the understanding of what a reverse mortgage is, is better. So probably one of the worst things that people think is, is the reverse mortgage is the bank’s gonna take your home away from you. You’re not gonna be entitled, they own your loan. So reverse mortgage is a loan. It’s just like any other loan you’ve ever done on your home. The only difference is that you’re not making a mortgage payment on it if you don’t want to. So I don’t know any other loan out there in the world that will allow you to decide, today I’m gonna give you some money, Mr. Bank, Mrs. Bank, but tomorrow I’m gonna keep it in my account. So that’s exactly what a reverse mortgage allows you to do. You’re allowed to stay entitled the entire time you own your home, entitled just like you did all along. So that’s probably one of the biggest myths that are out there that I’d love people to realize doesn’t exist. Well, after that, how does it work? Three, I think years with a reverse mortgage. One of them is age. One of them is the value of your home. And the last one is the interest rate. So your age is, the younger you are, basically the less money you’re allowed to have. The value of your home is the value of your home less any mortgages against it. Now, another myth that’s out there is that you have to have your home be free and clear, but that’s not the case. You can actually use a reverse mortgage to pay off your current mortgage and thus freeing up funds for your own household needs. The last one of course is interest rates. And that’s, well, that’s a moving target any day. So interest rates are involved. So all three of those come together to be able to figure out how much equity you can actually tap on your home to use for your needs. – So let’s put a hypothetical out there. You’ve got a half million dollar house and it’s free and clear, you’re 65 years old. Life expectancy, what is it? 87, 85 to 87 for women and like 33 for men, something like that. See, you missed that joke. Do you know why women live longer than men? – Theoretically we have less stress, but I’m not sure that’s true. – The women drive us nuts. We’re just trying to, anyways, nevermind. I’m not editing that out either. – Okay. – No, so what is the life expectancy? If you’re 65 and you’ve got a half million dollar house, I imagine there’s some actuary tables out there that tell them exactly based off of, do they check health records as well or not? – No health records.

There are actuary tables. If you are 65 years old, that loan’s gonna go out 30 years. So you’re gonna see those numbers go out until you’re 90s easily. My oldest person I’ve done a reverse mortgage for was 92 and he only went out until he hit 100. So actuary tables is a good way to think about how much you have. So I’d say at 65, you would be able to, without me opening up the book and looking at the logarithm table, you’d be able to tap about 45% of the equity in your home. The reason for that is, is they want the house to remain right side up. So again, because it’s a reverse mortgage, it’s gonna be, the house is gonna be paying your mortgage payment for you. So that balance is going up. We call it a negative amortization loan that can have a negative feeling when you hear it. But in this particular case, it’s good because I think if you’re over 65 years old, you’re living on a fixed income, then paying that mortgage every year is taking away from your money to help fund yourself and your lifestyle and your health as you get older. So at 65, about a 45% value of being able to use it, the rest of the house is paying for it. And the idea, HUD wanted to decide, or actually did decide in previous President Trump’s administration, that they lowered how much you could have so that the houses didn’t go upside down. So that the house wasn’t, you know, they don’t want the home. HUD doesn’t want the house. They would rather have value still at the home, maybe not as great as if it was totally free and clear when you were 90 years old, but that the heirs would still have some funds available. – So that’s interesting because a lot of people have that myth that if you pass away, the bank automatically gets the house. But it still is part of your estate. – It is. – And so explain that because I know people ask me that question and they just don’t know the answer. – It is, it’s still part of your estate. You can close in a trust, so it could be in a trust, or you can close it in your name. You would set it up in your will or your plans for the future for your heirs. Now, if the house is ultimately upside down, and if you live to be in the 90s and you started at 65, I’m gonna tell you, you’re probably gonna see that be upside down. I’m not gonna lie, that’s probably a reality. But at that point, the mortgage insurance that you pay on that loan up front will protect you and your heirs from anybody ever coming and knocking on the door and saying, “You owe us money on mom and dad’s house,” because that mortgage insurance clears that. That’s probably an additional myth that we can talk about, is that the mortgage insurance doesn’t benefit you. It always just benefited the lender. And that was true if you bought a home under the original FHA programs where you did 3% down, and that’s still out there. Those programs are still out there. Mortgage insurance is the same, but now it protects the owner of the home, the borrower, and their heirs, so that nobody is gonna come and, like I said, knock on the door and say that it’s owed. So we call it a non-recourse loan, which is great. – Absolutely. If you had a 30-year loan and the borrower passed away at year 20, the heirs can still continue carrying that loan for 10 more years? – Not carry it, but they would have to sell it.

They have about three months to six months to sell the house. And they’re gonna reach out with the death certificates, and this would be true on either side of a mortgage, that you would let the servicer know that the borrowers had passed. Once they do that, they go, “Okay, do you wanna sell it?” Well, if there’s a value in it, then the answer the heirs should be, “Yes, I do wanna sell it. “I’m gonna recoup what funds are available “we left to us, and that’s what mom and dad “wanted for us in the home.” So they have the first six months. If it doesn’t sell in the first six months, you reach back out to your lender, or actually to the servicer, and they will say, “All right, what are you doing? “Is the house priced properly?” Here in Colorado, we may be in blizzard season, and nobody’s looking at homes. So there’s a seasonal issue. So they just look at it, and they’ll give you an extension based on meeting that criteria, but you will have some time to sell it and recoup the funds that are available. So that’s good. When you sell it, it’s going to pay off the reverse mortgage, which would be the same in any other sell of a home. You’re paying off the existing loan on the home. What’s left is the funds that come to the heirs. – Right, and as long as they were structured properly, the heirs should have got a step up in tax basis. So they hopefully are not going to pay any capital gains on the remaining balance of the equity after they pay off the reverse mortgage, or in the event they just want to pay off the reverse mortgage and not sell a home, they just have to bring money from a different source or essentially refinance the house. – Correct, they could refinance it. There is a clause within the HUD program, which is an FHA program. This loan is an FHA program that would allow family members to purchase at 95%. Now, some of that has to do with structuring how you set up the title at the beginning with the owner, the original owner of the home, but they could purchase it at 95% of the loan. I’ve only seen that happen once. Mom got it and had it for a while. Her disabled son was living with her. And when she passed away, the loan was $200,000. Well, he was able to buy that house with the help of his siblings doing co-signing for considerably less than the $200,000 and continue to live there. – That’s great.

Foreclosure Risks & Loan Structure

So as property values keep going up, prices keep going up, I’m in the Midwest, so it doesn’t affect us as much, but people on the West Coast, East Coast, Colorado as well, there’s jumbo loans out there for large, expensive homes. Is there jumbo reverse loans as well? – There absolutely are. We call it proprietary loans. And the market’s tight right now for that particular loan. And once we had COVID in the 20s, most of the lenders shut down that particular loan. One of the ways they shut it down was that they made that interest rate really high. So my jumbo rates right now are not super attractive compared to what you can get with a traditional HUD program. Right now that limit, and boy, you’re gonna test my memory, is $1,125,000. That’s not a strong quote ’cause I always have to look it up because it changes from year to year, but that’s across the nation as to what the maximum amount you can get on a HUD product. So anything over that would be a jumbo. So I have jumbo’s that go up as high as $4 million in loans. So that works for people that have houses that are several hundred million dollars. – Well, and I would say to compare this, if somebody had a standard mortgage that they had to make payments on, and I don’t know how these numbers work out, but let’s go back to that half million dollar property. And they could do, at the 65 age range, they could use 45% of their equity. They could go and potentially leverage that house at 80% of the value, but then have payments. – Correct. – So if you were to take a calculator and figure it out, Laura, if you had payments on a $400,000 loan against a $500,000 property, at today’s current rates is, we’ll just say 6.75 ish, versus borrowing 45% of that, which would be, now I’m trying to do math in my head. I’m trying to figure out how many years it would take before they kind of equaled out. So- – Oh, I haven’t actually had anybody ask me that. That’s a good thing to think about. – You know, if you set aside enough money to cover the payments, you borrowed 400,000, how many months or years would you make that payment? Now, this again is assuming that a lender would give you a loan at age 65, probably retired. So they’re gonna look at your income and your DTI and everything else. But yeah, I’d be curious to see where those two cross paths. – If you could afford the payments, ’cause remember we’re gonna do PTI, principal taxes and interest, plus your debt. So any other debt you have is gonna qualify you for getting that forward loan. That’s what we would call, I believe that’s what you’re talking about, is a forward loan. He’s going to a local bank or lender, gonna get that. Those interest rates are on the high side of the sixes right now. We have not seen them come down. So qualifying for that could be tough, to be honest with you.

And then that payment is gonna come out every month. So I’m gonna guess that that payment’s probably gonna be, without pulling out calculators and looking up, you know, an interest rate for somebody, I would say we’re probably, with taxes and insurance, probably $3,000 a month. You know, that’s probably not a bad guess. Versus if you did a reverse mortgage, you would not take out $450,000 on your half a million dollar house. But you might be able to get out, what is it, 65%. 50 would be 300,000. Now we do math in our head. So I’m gonna say they’re gonna get out without doing any math with a calculator, $250,000 in cash. Who knows if that’s an accurate number, but that’s a number we’ll work with. And that’s actually cash that can come to them. There is a limit on how much they get the first year. They can have 65% of the $250,000 if they refinanced. The reason HUD came in and said that was they did some studies on how come people were going into foreclosure. And we’ll address that in just a minute. And they found out that if we gave everybody that $250,000 in cash in one lump sum, not necessarily were there great decisions being made. – It was like they won the lottery. – Kind of, exactly. And they forgot that they had to make their property taxes. Taxes and insurance are on them, no longer an escrow. So that leads us to how do you get into a foreclosure? I said I wanted to address that. And I’m kind of popcorning around, but let’s address that issue ’cause it’s definitely out there. Only way you can go into a foreclosure on a reverse mortgage is there are two ways. Well, I guess there ultimately are three ways. One is you don’t pay your property taxes. You don’t pay your property taxes, then that becomes a tax lien and lenders hate tax liens. Doesn’t matter if you’re forward or reverse, they don’t like them. And that’s exactly why you pay escrows on a forward loan. Now, can you get escrows on a reverse mortgage? Absolutely. If you don’t wanna worry about it and think about it, and you just wanna go on with your life, you can actually get an escrow that will take care of your taxes and insurance for you for the rest of your life on a reverse loan. We call it a LESA. We can’t use the same name for some silly reason. So it’s called a LESA, which is loan escrow set aside, LESA. Now, the other way you can end up in a foreclosure on a reverse mortgage is if you don’t live in the home. So you end up in a nursing home and you’ve had some situation that is gonna force you to live there now permanently. Reverse mortgage has to be your primary home. It has to be a place where you live. So now that could, if you don’t tell them, your service or about that, then that’s gonna force a foreclosure.

And the last one is, is if you don’t maintain it. So there are health and safety issues on all loans that are with the government. So if you, gosh, I don’t know, the roof fell in, you didn’t take care of it, something of those sorts, then they could come in and look at a forced closure. – Well, and most people don’t realize, ’cause we all know most people don’t read their documents. – Right. – Yeah, when you are not taking care of your property, regardless if it’s a forward loan or a reverse mortgage, that’s the collateral to the loan. And you are obligated to take care of that property in at least as good a condition as it was when the loan was issued. And as a former hard money lender for 10 years, we had people that, in our space, our most dangerous time when we issued a loan was demo day, right? They buy the house and now they’re flipping the house, they’re gonna come in and tear out walls. There’s a certain period of time where they’ve devalued that property, not below what they borrowed, but it is a dangerous. So yeah, you definitely, well, and I’ve seen just as a house flipper and buying thousands of properties over the years, I’ve bought foreclosures, I’ve bought the foreclosures that were reverse mortgages. And I always shift my head is when people go in and they destroy the house, because they are, that’s actually in most areas, it can be a federal crime, but it’s certainly a state crime because you are ripping out fixtures, you’re doing damage to the collateral for that loan and they can absolutely go after you. – It is sad, particularly when we had the collapse of the mortgage industry, the pictures that were out there on the internet of what happened was sad to see.

Using Reverse Mortgages for Home Purchase

People were angry, doesn’t justify it, doesn’t make it right at all. And I don’t know how you can prevent that ultimately. There’s not like mortgage police that are gonna come and check your house every year to make sure that it looks like your health and safety issues are okay. But they do check, the servicer for the reverse mortgage does check every year and sends you a questionnaire, which they’re hoping you will answer and you are legally bound to answer correctly. Are you still considering this your primary home? Now, you could go to Africa for six months and it’s still your primary home. It’s where you live, you could go and have, we call them snowbirds in Arizona, you could go to Arizona. I don’t think, probably don’t wanna hear that. We call them that, but you could go live there for- – We are snowbirds in Wisconsin when we go South. So it’s a common term, not a big deal. – So you can go and do that. And again, the reverse mortgage lender is not gonna be unhappy with you. They would like to know that you are, again, a courtesy call, communication is huge. It’s huge in all aspects of our life, but it’s huge when you’re talking with your lenders, that they know what’s going on. You can just say, “Hey, I’m here. “My mail’s being forwarded,” or, “Here is the forwarding address, one of the two, “and I will be back on this date,” you know? And that’s really all they wanna hear. Some people have asked me what happens with the fires. This is an interesting situation since we’re witnessing fires happening in California right now. I can guarantee you, California is where the most progressive reverse mortgage bots are happening. That’s where the jumbos started, where the proprietary loans were tested. Reaching out to your lender and letting them know that your home has been damaged because of a hurricane, because of a flood, because of a tornado, because of a fire, because of whatever natural disaster happened, would be the best thing that. – Yeah, and I think so many people are afraid to talk to their lender. And again, as a former lender, there’s nothing worse than somebody hiding from reality. And we are much more inclined to work with somebody that was being honest and forthright than somebody who was being underhanded and hiding from us. And the other thing is, you mentioned snowbirds. So many people don’t realize that if you read your insurance policies on your property, if it’s vacant for more than 30 days, oftentimes they don’t have to cover it. So if you do go somewhere for the winter, you should be contacting your insurance company as well. Now, are they going to increase your rates? Yeah, they are, because you have a vacant property. But when you live in our areas where things can freeze, it stands the reason the insurance rate should be higher because they’re taking more risk if there’s not somebody there every day to make sure. Which actually, that leads me to another question. Is there any way a reverse mortgage can be used to purchase a home?

Or you have to have owned this home for a period of time? – You can, you can definitely use it. Remember, it has to be a primary home. So I had a good friend, this is a true story. She was in rotary with me. She just left to go move into Arizona to be closer to her brother. They were 80, she’s 82. – Okay. – So she sold her house here in Colorado and her net proceeds were about a half a million dollars, 500,000 after she paid off everything, which she had a reverse mortgage on her home here in Colorado. So she was familiar with the product. And we talked before she left about her purchasing in Arizona and doing the exact same thing. So she went to live in her brother’s house and became very quickly a reality that she needed to find her own home pretty quickly. So she did. And it was about $325,000. So we use this reverse to buy that home. At her age of 82, she came to the closing table with about $275,000, not 325. So what was left of her $500,000 that she sold is now in her pocket to fund some more of her retirement. So you bet you can use it, absolutely. You do come to the table with a lot of money, but you are replacing one primary home for a new primary home. And that’s how it works. It’s a great product. – Yeah. – In fact, currently, I personally pay a mortgage on our house right now. People ask me why I don’t have a reverse. At some point, living in Colorado in a two-story house and very few ranches were built in Colorado, we will have to move to a ranch home. The reality of stairs is gonna happen to us at some point. We’re saving that reverse mortgage for that purchase because it makes so much sense. – Absolutely, absolutely. So I’m sure you get asked this all the time, and as do I, what’s your crystal ball tell you about rates throughout 2024? And I will preface it with saying, I don’t expect rates to come down at all, but what do you think? – Well, I would have to say on forwards, rates have not come down, even though the beds have lowered prime several times, actually the whole point. I have seen reverse mortgages mirror that prime loss on their line of credit products. So they have three loan types out there. One of them’s a line of credit, which follows and mirrors whatever’s happening with prime. There is a fixed rate, and then of course there’s the proprietary. So what I see with the fixed rate is, is that interest rate is up there right with everybody else trying to buy a house. So it’s in the high sixes. The line of credit being tied to prime is a margin plus the index. So the index right now with reverse mortgages is the constant maturity treasury, the CMT, to that we add a margin. And right now is that margin drops, those people’s loans are going to be less. Same if you have a HELOC, a home equity line of credit. So people ask me, why wouldn’t I just do a home equity line of credit on my house and put a second on instead of doing a reverse mortgage at the age of 62 or older? Well, the reason that you wouldn’t want to do that is, well, it’s not that you wouldn’t want to do it, but maybe you would consider redoing it if you weren’t able to make those payments, or if you didn’t want to make those payments. So the reverse mortgage would allow you to put a HELOC on your house. And in that sense, that’s how you get the funds out. There’s actually even a jumbo reverse HELOC out there. So if you have an interest rate at 3%, and I guarantee you that a lot of us out there that do have that, and we have a house value that’s close to a million dollars or higher, but we don’t have a very high loan balance on our 3% loan, you could look at a jumbo second as a reverse mortgage.

Interest Rates & Market Trends

And it’s a very interesting product that’s been out for about a year. – Really? Well, in general, if rates don’t come down, and I don’t believe they will because– – I agree with that. – Because honestly, I don’t think they should. And that’s not a popular answer, but I’m a realist and the reality is we need to get inflation in check and giving away cheap money or free money is not gonna do that. But with the way the mortgage industry works, and maybe you can explain this because you’ve been in it for so many years, people think that the banks make more or less money depending what the rates are. And the reality is banks have to pay for the use of money, just like everybody else pays for the use of money. So might you be able to explain that a little bit to the audience or am I going in a direction we shouldn’t go? – I know a little bit. In my years of being in this business, I’ve learned a lot. And so I know a little bit to be dangerous. And so that’s exactly it. I’m not an expert in this, but I understand the banks have to go to a lending window to get money and they pay an interest rate. Now it’s not the same interest rate that we pay as public. And the difference is how the bank makes money. Banks are in the business to make money. That is their prime core objective. They don’t want the house, they don’t want your boat, they don’t want your car, they wanna make money. And that’s how they do it is through interest rates. So yeah, I don’t think that banks don’t pay 7% on that money that you’re paying on it, but they might pay, I don’t know, five, four or five. I don’t know what that window charges them, but they do pay for it. – Well, and are the reverse mortgage companies doing the same thing as a typical bank where these loans are getting sold over and over again, or are they held longer term? – The proprietary loans are held by the owners of those industries. So it’s like the guy behind the curtain in “The Wizard of Oz.” I don’t know who those banks are, but they are there and they are willing to put out loans or give money to people who have $2 million houses and want a reverse mortgage. And they keep those on their books. The rest of them, the typical HUD products are sold on the secondary market. They’re packaged together and put on a secondary market. Most of them are done through, they’re handled through a servicer. And again, I’m not sure who buys those. That’s a piece that when I put files together for selling on the secondary market, they were all forward loans. And we sold them in Jenny Mae and Fannie Mae bundles. But who bought those? People who had enough funds to do that. – If I were to guess, I would guess large insurance companies are buying them up.

Hedge funds are buying them up. Things of that nature. So, well, Laura, what is one question I should have asked you that I didn’t? – What is that? – Anything on the top of your mind. What do you think I should have asked you that I did not? – Oh, okay. What I should have asked me? That’s a good question. We’ve covered a lot and hopefully, I guess I popcorned around a lot. I think I explained how a reverse mortgage worked fairly well. – Yeah, it’s been great. – And we went over how you could go into being in a foreclosure. We talked about some of the myths that were big that just don’t exist any longer. So I would say people should, people if they’re considering it should look into it. Look into it. It doesn’t hurt to ask, what would a reverse mortgage do for me in my situation? And consider that. It’s timing. What is the timing in your life at this point? Are you okay to make the payments? Do you need extra money? What are the needs? Do you need to make the house? Do you wanna age out of the house? Do you wanna make it so that you’ve got grab bars everywhere and are making it easier to live in? What are your needs and how are you gonna address them? I think the money that you put in savings accounts and assets of stocks are hard earned money. And there might be, I’m not a financial advisor by any stretch of the imagination, but there might be a better way than selling those stocks and paying capital gains and using the equity in your home, which is kind of like this silent asset that nobody ever thinks about. And look at that reverse mortgage to help you out. – I just came up with another question and I believe I know the answer to, but so you put a reverse mortgage in place. I’m assuming they would not allow a second mortgage behind them, correct? – That is correct. There would not be, I mean, theoretically you could, but I can’t imagine a lender that would in their right mind do it. – Correct. – Right. – Correct. – Well, I know you’ve got a little giveaway for people that kind of want to know a little bit more about reverse mortgages, which will be available at thegenerationsofwealth.com/reverse. But what is that white paper that you have? – I put together a white paper and it says 10 surprising benefits of a reverse mortgage. ‘Cause most people think of it as a last resort. I only need it because I’m desperate. But there are so many ways that a senior, which is, what is a senior? A senior can consider looking at making it a wealth building product for themselves to leave more money to their heirs, to pay for a grandchild’s education or life insurance on a grandchild so that they can help set them up in life by protecting their assets. They’re not paying, theoretically, more taxes. Again, I’m not a tax person either. I’m gonna stay in my little narrow lane of mortgages. But I believe that those things are probably pretty accurate. And I put together Mike and Mary, and here’s their scenario and here’s some things they could do. – Well, that’s awesome. And again, you can get that at thegenerationsofwealth.com/reverse. And Laura, I just really wanna thank you again for your time and your knowledge. It’s amazing how much you know for only being 29 years old, being in the industry for 30 years.

So thank you very much. – Thank you. It has been a pleasure to visit with you. I appreciate it. – Of course, of course. Well, until the next episode, thank you for being here, everybody that follows us on a regular basis. If it’s your first time, thanks for finding us and help us expand and spread the message of the Generations of Wealth. So until the next show, go live your vision and love your life. See ya.

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• TheGenerationsOfWealth.com/reverse

About Laura Philips